I sat down with Emmy Kegler to discuss easing the burden on the walk with mental illness. We discuss how this book emerged out fo a deep need for compassionate Christian talk about mental illness, something that critiqued harmful Christian approaches but still had something to offer. I ask about her chapter on sin, which helps us rethink where the 'sin' in conversations about mental health should be located. We then discuss prayer - especially the urge to pray it away even if that's not how we really believe prayer works (and Emmy shares about what Dawson's Creek taught her about prayer). We then discuss trauma and the ecclesial gaslighting of waving away suffering as God's will. We end with a chat about what Emmy would like to see next in terms of Christian reflection on mental health.