I sat down with Michael Mawson to talk discipleship, suffering, weakness, and the way of the cross. I start by asking if discipleship is inextricably tied to concepts such as these and if so, is being a disciple of Christ something we should wish on anyone... from there we range through a number of related topics and interesting thinkers from M. Shawn Copeland, to Julian of Norwich, Martin Luther to Dietrich Bonhoeffer. And we end with a helpful discussion on how this focus on the weakness of God as the locus of our salvation and basis of our faith shapes how we approach Christian mission and evangelism.