"Paul is probably the least interesting thing about Paul’s letters." I sat down with Joseph Marchal to talk the way his book reaches past questions of what Paul 'thought' (or how his texts can be read in 'inclusive' ways) toward far more fascinating queer figures before and after his letters: "androgynes, eunuchs, slaves, and barbarians—each depicted as perversely gendered and strangely embodied figures in their own distinctive, though interrelated ways”. We discuss his intentionally anachronistic style of juxtaposition, and how this leads his work on 1 Corinthians 11 and Paul's concerns about the women prophesying, to considerations of ancient figures of androgyny and contemporary work on female masculinity. And much, much more!